[jdev] Feels like it's dying

Wed Dec 16 12:39:49 UTC 2015

Well said, Panagiotis. Thanks for that.

2015-12-16 12:27 GMT+00:00 PG Stath <pgstath at gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
> This is an interesting point to make, but I don't think that main reasons
> are technical. XMPP standards have accomplished an nearly impossible task:
> communication among different clients, using different servers. This is an
> extremely complicated technical achievement, and its worth our praise.
> Some things may should have done differently, while more modern
> technologies could be used in some areas.
> On the other hand, this has lead to fragmentation of clients and servers,
> making a public network difficult to maintain.
> However, my understanding is that economic reasons exist as well:
> - Do FOSS applications give enough incentives for developers to built the
> extremely elegant and complicated UXs that today's end users demand?
> - Have ad subsidized IM apps, cannibalized, the end user facing market?
>
> My impression is that as developers we underestimate the effort and
> resources required for building an elegant end user UX. This is not only
> that FOSS folks does not care about UX, as some would say, this is also
> because building elegant UXs requires tremendous amount of resources.
> My 2cents on the current IM state of affairs,
> Panagiotis
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Marcel Waldvogel <
> marcel.waldvogel at uni-konstanz.de> wrote:
>
>> André,
>>
>> thank you for your efforts in trying to bring more people to XMPP. I hope
>> many here are doing the same.
>>
>> Among German academic institutions, there is a gentle, but steady push
>> forward for XMPP. Besides the weak spot of mobile support, I see two points:
>>
>> * There are a few steps until XMPP works as desired:
>>   - The account does not automatically come with the application or vice
>> versa
>>   - Your contacts are not immediately visible and active
>> * It is hard to do XMPP hosting
>>
>> These issues are being addressed, but they have not seen the momentum yet:
>>
>> * To solve the account/app problem, we (especially Klaus!) have been
>> working hard on making XMPP integrated into web applications used e.g. in
>> the educational environment with the JSXC JavaScript XMPP Client. Plugins
>> for applications ranging from ownCloud to Ilias (e-learning [2]), but also
>> SOGo [3] or Diaspora* [4] have been developed to make it easier to
>> integrate XMPP into these collaborative applications, many of which follow
>> the federation model of XMPP. (The ownCloud and Diaspora* teams have been
>> especially supportive, thanks!)
>>
>> * We are working on easy and automatic ways to sync information from the
>> authentication service into group into the roster.
>>
>> * There is work underway to simplify multi-domain secure hosting using
>> DANE or POSH. I hope that client support will start soon.
>>
>> Yes, it is late, but I don't think it is too late. However, this requires
>> the XMPP developer community to start addressing these issues in their
>> projects or help other projects achieving this goal.
>>
>> [1] https://www.jsxc.org
>> [2] http://www.ilias.de/
>> [3] http://sogo.nu/
>> [4] https://diasporafoundation.org/
>> --
>> -Marcel Waldvogel <https://me.uni.kn/marcel.waldvogel>
>>
>> On Sam, 2015-12-12 at 19:48 -0200,
>>
>> I have been trying to use and to bring more people to use xmpp, but it's
>> hard - as you may already know.
>>
>> I have an email account that integrated our account with a xmpp, and could
>> automatically log our conversations in a mail folder. I liked this feature
>> a lot, but now it is being abandoned by Fastmail, as anounced in their
>> blog.
>>
>> Their arguments to abandon xmpp seems reasonable. But if I saw and could
>> show them any reasonable thing to dissolve their arguments, maybe they
>> would keep this feature. And more than that, maybe xmpp would grow instead
>> of slowly dying, like I'm seeing it. My view is limited, but even so it is
>> bigger than most other people's view that I know.
>>
>> XMPP does not have mobile clients as good as the variety and quality of PC
>> clients. Xabber and Yaxim seems the best one. But they are too limited
>> compared with other protocols' clients, and also compared with PC clients,
>> as I said.
>>
>> Google abandoned XMPP, fine. I don't need it as a search engine. There are
>> better options, more respectable and without contradictions as time goes
>> by. And there are others that are keeping XMPP somehow, but they're
>> lacking one basic incentive: give a few reasons for us users to use it! So
>> the user number is not kept as small and rare as it is now.
>>
>> Xabber: needs more developers! Needs improvements. Yaxim also needs it. I
>> don't know other clients, but these two are used by a few friends of mine
>> (the very few ones who use these client to talk basically only with me -
>> that's sad but true!).
>>
>> Sad thing. But I hope that this list will (maybe, who knows without
>> trying) show me some better things than the one of the kind the I
>> described a bit above here.
>>
>> See you around,
>>
>> André
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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