[jdev] Feels like it's dying

[PG Stath]

Hi all,
This is an interesting point to make, but I don't think that main reasons
are technical. XMPP standards have accomplished an nearly impossible task:
communication among different clients, using different servers. This is an
extremely complicated technical achievement, and its worth our praise.
Some things may should have done differently, while more modern
technologies could be used in some areas.
On the other hand, this has lead to fragmentation of clients and servers,
making a public network difficult to maintain.
However, my understanding is that economic reasons exist as well:
- Do FOSS applications give enough incentives for developers to built the
extremely elegant and complicated UXs that today's end users demand?
- Have ad subsidized IM apps, cannibalized, the end user facing market?

My impression is that as developers we underestimate the effort and
resources required for building an elegant end user UX. This is not only
that FOSS folks does not care about UX, as some would say, this is also
because building elegant UXs requires tremendous amount of resources.
My 2cents on the current IM state of affairs,
Panagiotis


On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Marcel Waldvogel <
marcel.waldvogel at uni-konstanz.de> wrote:

> André,
>
> thank you for your efforts in trying to bring more people to XMPP. I hope
> many here are doing the same.
>
> Among German academic institutions, there is a gentle, but steady push
> forward for XMPP. Besides the weak spot of mobile support, I see two points:
>
> * There are a few steps until XMPP works as desired:
>   - The account does not automatically come with the application or vice
> versa
>   - Your contacts are not immediately visible and active
> * It is hard to do XMPP hosting
>
> These issues are being addressed, but they have not seen the momentum yet:
>
> * To solve the account/app problem, we (especially Klaus!) have been
> working hard on making XMPP integrated into web applications used e.g. in
> the educational environment with the JSXC JavaScript XMPP Client. Plugins
> for applications ranging from ownCloud to Ilias (e-learning [2]), but also
> SOGo [3] or Diaspora* [4] have been developed to make it easier to
> integrate XMPP into these collaborative applications, many of which follow
> the federation model of XMPP. (The ownCloud and Diaspora* teams have been
> especially supportive, thanks!)
>
> * We are working on easy and automatic ways to sync information from the
> authentication service into group into the roster.
>
> * There is work underway to simplify multi-domain secure hosting using
> DANE or POSH. I hope that client support will start soon.
>
> Yes, it is late, but I don't think it is too late. However, this requires
> the XMPP developer community to start addressing these issues in their
> projects or help other projects achieving this goal.
>
> [1] https://www.jsxc.org
> [2] http://www.ilias.de/
> [3] http://sogo.nu/
> [4] https://diasporafoundation.org/
> --
> -Marcel Waldvogel <https://me.uni.kn/marcel.waldvogel>
>
> On Sam, 2015-12-12 at 19:48 -0200,
>
> I have been trying to use and to bring more people to use xmpp, but it's
> hard - as you may already know.
>
> I have an email account that integrated our account with a xmpp, and could
> automatically log our conversations in a mail folder. I liked this feature
> a lot, but now it is being abandoned by Fastmail, as anounced in their
> blog.
>
> Their arguments to abandon xmpp seems reasonable. But if I saw and could
> show them any reasonable thing to dissolve their arguments, maybe they
> would keep this feature. And more than that, maybe xmpp would grow instead
> of slowly dying, like I'm seeing it. My view is limited, but even so it is
> bigger than most other people's view that I know.
>
> XMPP does not have mobile clients as good as the variety and quality of PC
> clients. Xabber and Yaxim seems the best one. But they are too limited
> compared with other protocols' clients, and also compared with PC clients,
> as I said.
>
> Google abandoned XMPP, fine. I don't need it as a search engine. There are
> better options, more respectable and without contradictions as time goes
> by. And there are others that are keeping XMPP somehow, but they're
> lacking one basic incentive: give a few reasons for us users to use it! So
> the user number is not kept as small and rare as it is now.
>
> Xabber: needs more developers! Needs improvements. Yaxim also needs it. I
> don't know other clients, but these two are used by a few friends of mine
> (the very few ones who use these client to talk basically only with me -
> that's sad but true!).
>
> Sad thing. But I hope that this list will (maybe, who knows without
> trying) show me some better things than the one of the kind the I
> described a bit above here.
>
> See you around,
>
> André
>
>
>
>
>
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