[jdev] Jabberd2, Flash Client and terminator character...

[Christopher Zorn]

You missed option #3.5 Flash and XMLRPC.

I do not use flash. So I do not know much about it. 
Doing a google search[1] I see there are a few projects and 
it seems flash supports xmlrpc.

That said, Punjab is an xmlrpc interface to jabber. It is a standalone
blackbox. It makes 'normal' jabber client connections using PCJ[3]. 

Just thought I would mention this as an alternative.

[1] http://www.google.com/search?q=flash+xmlrpc
[2] http://punjab.jabberstudio.org
[3] http://pcj.jabberstudio.org

On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 09:30:54AM -0600, Matthew A. Miller wrote:
> I can definitely appreciate your arguments.  However, three things 
> conspire against us all:
> 
> 1)  The entire XMPP stream is a complete XML document, the specs of 
> which do not permit the NULL character anywhere within the document itself.
> 2)  Flash does not currently seem to accept this, since it wants a 
> complete XML "document" with each reciept.*
> 3)  Jabberd2 aims to be an open reference implementation of the 
> XMPP-Core and XMPP-IM RFCs.
> 
> Both Flash and XMPP (often in the form of the protocols managed and 
> published by the Jabber Software Foundation) are clearly gaining 
> traction, especially in enterprise environments.
> 
> From what I've seen so far, here are the possible paths I see we can 
> follow to resolve this:
> 1)  Lobby Macromedia to provide better support for XMPP
> 2)  Lobby the jabberd2 project to provide better support for Flash
> 3)  Develop alternatives to direct XMPP streams
> 
> Option #1 is highly unlikely to result in anything in the short term.  
> Option #2 would have a better shot, but since adding the NULL terminator 
> violates the XMPP specs (by way of the XML specs), this also looks 
> highly unlikely.  Option #3 is probably the most-realistic compromise at 
> this time, since it does not violate any of the existing specs.
> 
> For Option #3, I believe there is already something in the works, in the 
> form of JEP-0124: HTTP Binding.  It's not ideal, but given the fact that 
> it can much more easily accomodate the demands from both XMPP and 
> Flash.  The problem, of course, is that JEP-0124 is still rather 
> immature, and lacks any truly deployable implementations.  Then again, 
> if the Flash-XMPP/Jabber community does not feel this is adequate, they 
> are welcome to present better alternatives.
> 
> In the short term, it is probably best to stick with some version of 
> jabberd-1.4, since it already has the compatibility in place.  Longer 
> term, it is very likely that HTTP-binding will be the "best" solution, 
> unless options 1 and/or 2 result in anything productive.
> 
> These, of course, are just my thoughts and opinions.
> 
> 
> -  LW
> 
> *  This is based on what I've been reading, since I have very little 
> experience developing anything in Flash.
> 
> Keith Willis wrote:
> 
> >I agree with Sean,
> >
> >We are using his XIFF library to connect to our Jabber Server that was
> >written in .NET.  Currently there is a Chat application and IM.  I am now
> >onto trying to develop a whiteboard.  All done in flash.
> >
> >Something that you need to remember is that Flash movies are cross 
> >platform,
> >cross browser compatable.  Even more so than Java.  And it is even more
> >widely accepted.  Oh, and Flash is ADA compliant.
> >
> >Keith 
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: jdev-bounces at jabber.org [mailto:jdev-bounces at jabber.org] On Behalf Of
> >Sean Voisen
> >Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:32 AM
> >To: Jabber software development list
> >Subject: Re: [jdev] Jabberd2, Flash Client and terminator character...
> >
> >On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Richard Dobson wrote:
> >
> > 
> >
> >>Also IMO it would be a bad idea to use Flash as an enterprise 
> >>development platform, its not really suited to that purpose IMO and 
> >>you will be limiting yourself using it, IMO for proper enterprise web 
> >>applications you would be far better using Java.
> >>   
> >>
> >
> >Honestly, unless you are deeply familiar with Flash's capabilities and its
> >community, I wouldn't comment on the fact that Flash isn't suited for
> >enterprise development!
> >
> >Take a look at Macromedia Flex. Take a look at Convoq ASAP (built entirely
> >with Flash) and tell me it wouldn't be great with Jabber support alongside
> >the other IM protocols.
> >
> >Flash is entirely well-suited for the rich-client portion of enterprise
> >development. It is not meant to supplant Java, but rather live along-side 
> >it
> >as the client of choice. Where I work we are building a multi-million 
> >dollar
> >enterprise application for the insurance industry that is Java on the
> >backend with a full Flash UI in a 3-tier system that interacts with the 
> >Java
> >business logic using J2EE remoting.
> >
> >So, to say that Flash is not suited to enterprise development is clearly
> >wrong.
> >
> >As for Jabber/XMPP, I know for a fact that there is growing support in the
> >Flash community to use Flash with XMPP. A good deal of this support was
> >initiated either by me, with the XIFF project, or by others being inspired
> >by the release of Gush. So, if Flash socket support never makes it into
> >Jabberd2, I'd say it's a loss for both sides, and XMPP needs all the help 
> >it
> >can get, IMO. With the eminent release of the AOL Presence SDK for
> >Macromedia Central, it's only a matter of time before Flash developers jump
> >on the presence/IM bandwagon, and I'd hate to see it limited to AIM.
> >
> >- Sean
> >
> >Sean Voisen
> >Weblog: http://voisen.org
> >Flash/XMPP: http://xifflabs.com
> >XIFF 2.0: http://www.jabberstudio.org/projects/xiff
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> >
> 
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