[jdev] Jabberd2, Flash Client and terminator character...

[Richard Dobson]

> > Also IMO it would be a bad idea to use Flash as an enterprise
development
> > platform, its not really suited to that purpose IMO and you will be
limiting
> > yourself using it, IMO for proper enterprise web applications you would
be
> > far better using Java.
>
> Honestly, unless you are deeply familiar with Flash's capabilities and its
> community, I wouldn't comment on the fact that Flash isn't suited for
> enterprise development!

I am familiar with both Flash and Java and flash is simply not nearly as
capable as Java is by any stretch of the imagination, flash is fine for
simple stuff but as soon as you start trying to do complex things its
limitations become very obvious.

> Take a look at Macromedia Flex. Take a look at Convoq ASAP (built entirely
> with Flash) and tell me it wouldn't be great with Jabber support alongside
> the other IM protocols.

I couldnt comment about this as I havent looked at it.

> Flash is entirely well-suited for the rich-client portion of enterprise
> development. It is not meant to supplant Java, but rather live along-side
> it as the client of choice. Where I work we are building a multi-million
> dollar enterprise application for the insurance industry that is Java on
> the backend with a full Flash UI in a 3-tier system that interacts with
> the Java business logic using J2EE remoting.
>
> So, to say that Flash is not suited to enterprise development is clearly
> wrong.

It all depends what you mean by enterprise development and what you are
asking flash to do, if its only used for a simple UI with no real substance
to it then its fine, but trying to do anything a bit more complex and you
will run into problems. (e.g. the only sockets you can do are flash's
limited XMLSocket implementation, which as has been shown is not compatible
with the proper jabber protocols, and in flash there is no way to get around
this serious problem, but with java its not a problem because it is a proper
programming platform and has proper sockets support and proper xml parsers,
also with java you could even write your own xml parser if you wanted to,
but with flash and actionscript you dont have that capability which IMO its
a serious limitation if you are trying to use it as a proper enterprise
development platform).

> As for Jabber/XMPP, I know for a fact that there is growing support in the
> Flash community to use Flash with XMPP. A good deal of this support was
> initiated either by me, with the XIFF project, or by others being inspired
> by the release of Gush.

Thats good, but isnt it better for this to work without the need for a hack
that is against the established protocols and how jabber/xmpp xml streaming
works? All because of a serious limitation in flash.

> So, if Flash socket support never makes it into
> Jabberd2, I'd say it's a loss for both sides, and XMPP needs all the help
> it can get, IMO.

I very much doubt flash is a make or break thing for jabber/xmpp, I would
highly question this viewpoint.

> With the eminent release of the AOL Presence SDK for
> Macromedia Central, it's only a matter of time before Flash developers
> jump on the presence/IM bandwagon, and I'd hate to see it limited to AIM.

Is this AOL Presence SDK a special addon or has someone worked out how to
use XMLSocket with AOL? If its an extension then this is probably the better
thing to push for i.e. push macromedia to implement proper jabber/xmpp
support without the requirement of having to hack the protocol and server in
a way that is completely against the published protocol specifications and
the way jabber xml streaming works.

Richard