[JDEV] MSN vs Jabber

[Max Metral]

How would you explain the fact that MSN overtook AOL before it was
integrated with anything (I'm not sure on this one, but I recall it being in
that order)?  I don't *think* MSN Messenger was integrated with ME, just XP.
And I agree that's just not fair.  (I wish the gov't would focus on useful
issues, not this nonsense about whether HTTP and HTML objects are integrated
with the OS (which they should be at this point))

IE *also* won because Netscape stunk, never implemented an object model, and
crashed all the time.

On your questions:

By my "embrace and extend" comments I was saying that the real way to
compete with MSFT is to embrace (adopt) their tools and ideas and extend
them to do interesting things.  This is what they do to everybody else, but
for some reason people don't do it to them.  Instead, people bash them or
rebuild all the stuff they built.  While they are spinning their wheels on
that, MSFT is off doing the next thing.

MSN alerts is some framework for businesses integrating with Messenger.  I
don't know all the details, I just had a friend who was outbid on EBay, and
got an MSN "toast" (like when somebody logs in) alerting them to the bid.
That is going to be hard to beat if more services use it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mattias Campe [mailto:mattias.campe at rug.ac.be]
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 5:42 PM
To: jdev at jabber.org
Subject: Re: [JDEV] MSN vs Jabber


> -----Original Message-----
[...]
> 
> MSN's big advantage is (of course) user-base. Microsoft built up a user 
> base in a way that only someone with a monopoly on computer operating 
> systems could ;-) However, I've seen numbers in the past that indicate 
> their userbase has significantly lower usage by percentage than the 
> other three main portal IM systems; I figure this is because people set 
> up an MSN account when they set up their computer not knowing what it 
> is, or wanting to use it. The client then just logs in and stays silent 
> in their tooltray whenever they connect to the internet.
> 
> -David Wait
Max Metral wrote:
 > I think it's overly simplistic to suggest that Microsoft's monopoly is
 > the reason they grew their userbase so well.

Sorry, I would (IMHO) disagree on this. I think MSN wins from ICQ, Yahoo 
Messenger/Jabber the same way Internet Explorer "won" from Netscape: 
Internet Explorer was pre-installed with Windows '95 (or was it '98?). 
Why would people need another browser?

Then, later on, you could get a free hotmail e-mail account (like me, I 
got my e-mail before I knew about the "hype" MSN Messenger). A lot of 
people didn't knew about MSN Messenger or a passport. In windows Me, MSN 
is pre-installed... "hmm, I can use my e-mail adres to chat, well, I'll 
give it a try"...

 > MSN Messenger is BY FAR a better client for the majority of Internet
 > users than any of ours, and arguably better than AOL.

I think I must agree on this one: MSN Messenger doesn't have the 
overfeatered ICQ-style, but still offers good, usable features.

 > They are also a LOT more "open" than AOL and Yahoo, even if not
 > formally.  If anyone had a monopoly here, it was/is AOL, and they are
 > trying to weild it as much as they can.  A year from now, when MSN has
 > made their client an also ran, AOL and their cronies will go crying to
 > the Fed that MSFT bullied them, when what really happened is that AOL
 > acted like a bunch of babies trying to block and close off all
 > other-client access and stop all interesting application development
 > on their platform.  The question for us is which camp are we going to
 > be in, the ones who bitch about msft or the ones who embrace and
 > extend the embracers-and-extenders.

Sorry, English isn't my native language, what do you mean with "the ones 
who embrace and extend the embracers-and-extenders?".

 > We do have the advantages you state, and the more we make ourselves
 > play nice with the major clients, the better those advantages seem
 > because they won't have the disadvantages of not playing with MSN Ebay
 > alerts (for example).

Sorry, but what are MSN Ebay alerts?

 > Us bashing MSFT is sort of like the Red Sox bashing the Yankees.  If
 > we had won more in the last 80 years, we wouldn't care about the damn
 > Yankees. :)

.m.

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