[JDEV] A way to spread the message about Jabber and interoperability

Thu Nov 15 18:15:22 CST 2001

As Chief Evangelist, I'd be happy to lead the charge. :)

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
email+jabber: stpeter at jabber.org
weblog: http://stpeter.manilasites.com/

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Justin Mecham wrote:

> Yes, very good points.
> 
> Perhaps we should start an Advocacy JIG to organize efforts to put 
> Jabber into more of a spotlight and to answer intelligently questions 
> that are posed to us.
> 
> Justin
> 
> 
> On Thursday, November 15, 2001, at 05:18  PM, Ragavan S wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > To be fair to Rikard, I think his message came out of the desire to 
> > make people aware of Jabber. The approach he suggested may not be the 
> > most appropriate one, but I think his intention is clear.
> >
> > I am also of the opinion that we definitely need to get more publicity 
> > than what we have right now. If you look at it, MSN/Yahoo/AOL all have 
> > a LOT of publicitly and they also advertise shamelessly (albeit on 
> > their own sites and their partner's sites), so I don't see anything 
> > wrong with us Jabberites doing that. I would really hate to see Jabber 
> > not playing a big role in the still 'standard-less' IM world and also 
> > in the broader realm of app-2-app routing. Right now, most of the 
> > publicity seems to be confined to organizations that are using Jabber 
> > internally and to the Open Source world.
> >
> > I think we can start with first making sure the majority of the Linux 
> > world starts hearing about Jabber (which may already be the case) and 
> > then moving on to a broader base of users.
> >
> > I strongly believe that Jabber has a LOT of potential to influence the 
> > way IM (and XML routing) shapes up in the coming future. But, I also 
> > feel that there needs to be a lot more 'awareness-building' among the 
> > general population if we are to pose a serious threat to the likes of 
> > MSN/AOL/Yahoo AND to make a strong case to the Standards bodies.
> >
> > One simple suggestion would be to say start showing small ads on sites 
> > that Open Source folks frequent (like O'Reilly sites, Slashdot, 
> > Freshmeat etc). With the help of people like Tim O'Reilly, Craig 
> > Burton, Dave Winer, Doc Searls etc (all Jabber enthusiasts), I am sure 
> > we can start getting the word around and become more noticeable.
> >
> > My 0.02 paise.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ragavan
> >
> >
> >
> >> I tend to agree. Not to mention that we'd give them a reason to block
> >> us. Think of it this way, AOL is blocking various Jabber clients out of
> >> spite and some vague notion of "illegal network traffic". However, 
> >> Yahoo!,
> >> Microsoft and ICQ (while owned by AOL) have more or less left us
> >> alone. Yet Yahoo! and Microsoft are both business ventures, and they
> >> probably have left us alone becuase our distribution is fairly
> >> minor. However, if we start actively recruiting users through their
> >> networks, they are likely to be more upset. With just a couple
> >> hundred/thousand Jabber users accessing their networking, its 
> >> probably a
> >> minor annoyance, but if people start leaving en masse, it does damage 
> >> to
> >> their business model, and if we are actively attacking their bottom 
> >> line,
> >> there will probably be repercussions/retaliation. They may even 
> >> actively
> >> attempt to block Jabber servers from accessing their networks, and if 
> >> this
> >> happens we're back where we started -- running multiple clients.
> >>
> >> Not to mention I would find it rather annoying should I be running
> >> Yahoo!'s client or MSN Messenger and when a friend of mine said "Hi, 
> >> how
> >> are you doing?" it was automatically converted to "Hi, how are you
> >> doing? -- This message brought to you by Jabber. 
> >> http://www.jabber.org/".
> >>
> >> Regards.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Justin Mecham wrote:
> >> > I am totally against any sort of advertising such as this. Even 
> >> though I
> >> > want to get the word out about Jabber I don't think this is the right
> >> > way. If you are chatting with those people anyways, just mention 
> >> Jabber
> >> > to them yourself. If I were not using Jabber and received this 
> >> message I
> >> > would be extremely annoyed and would likely never try Jabber, but 
> >> that's
> >> > just me.
> >> >
> >> > Another point is that having any sort of static or repetative string 
> >> of
> >> > text in messages to the networks we are trying to interoperate with, 
> >> we
> >> > are providing them with a fingerprint with which they can block us 
> >> with.
> >> > All they have to do is detect messages that contain that string and 
> >> they
> >> > can easily drop that message or disconnect you from the server,
> >> > rendering your transport useless.
> >> >
> >> > I want more people to use Jabber as much as anyone, but forcing our
> >> > message onto people who may not want it or even care about it is a 
> >> bad
> >> > idea.
> >> >
> >> > Justin
> >> >
> >> > On Thursday, November 15, 2001, at 01:52  PM, Rikard Linde wrote:
> >> > > Hi. Today I read news about people using multiple IM
> >> > > clients!! This made me upset so I wrote a message to
> >> > > Jabber people who are in a position to do something
> >> > > about this. Here's a short summary of the message:
> >> > >
> >> > > By attaching a message to each stream going to other
> >> > > networks (ICQ, MSN, Yahoo...) Jabber can promote
> >> > > interoperability and itself. This capability is unique
> >> > > to Jabber as it is the only interoperable IM platform.
> >> > >
> >> > > You can read the entire message at:
> >> > >
> >> > > http://www.sprinterface.com/rikard/promoteinteroperability.html
> >> > >
> >> > > What do you think? What's good about it? What's bad
> >> > > about it? Alternatives?
> >> > > If you think this is a good idea I'd be glad if you
> >> > > influnced people in a position to do something about
> >> > > it (people running servers, people coding transports,
> >> > > the Jabber council etcetera).
> >> > >
> >> > > Rikard
> >> > >
> >> > > _____________________________________________________
> >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > se.yahoo.com
> >> > > _______________________________________________
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> >> > > jdev at jabber.org
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> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
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