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<TITLE> [JDEV] Guaranteed message delivery (was: Unreliable?)</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Maybe I was not verbose enough in my explanation.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Guaranteed messages is not currently a feature of the Jabber server OR any Jabber clients I know of. It would be a nice _optional_ feature of the Jabber server, but should be optional since it would cause increased traffic that some solutions may not want.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Here is a more verbose explanation of what I was proposing using the existing Jabber server version(s) and modifying an existing client or rolling your own:</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Note: Not showing server in this since it includes not logic for guarenteed</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>1) Client A sends message -> Client B </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>2) Client B recv message and sends a "receipt message" -> Client A</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>3) Client A removes message from "pending receipt" list</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Client A will alert user if a message is on the "pending receipt" list for more than X seconds.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>The "receipt message" could be a standard message with no normal body text but includes an <x> section which includes the message that was received and any other pertinent information. The specialized client would know to process this <x> section to update it's "pending receipt" list.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>You still maintain the ability to send message to clients that don't support your specialized <x> section, but you will need some way to know (which I believe there is a way to ask for someone's client type) to not wait for return receipts from those clients.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Colin Madere</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Vedalabs, Inc.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: travis@thinkvirtual.com [<A HREF="mailto:travis@thinkvirtual.com">mailto:travis@thinkvirtual.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:59 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: jdev@jabber.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>But what if the client never gets the message? That's the whole problem here. The server needs to know whether the client got the message or not, not the other way around. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Travis </FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>---- Original Message ---- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Colin Madere <colin@vedalabs.com> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: 2001-05-03 09:01:34.0 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: "'jdev@jabber.org'" <jdev@jabber.org> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? </FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client? You could sent "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the client could take care of keeping track of it. Just send a message with an <x> namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no server mod necessary...</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message----- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: travis@thinkvirtual.com [<A HREF="mailto:travis@thinkvirtual.com">mailto:travis@thinkvirtual.com</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: jdev@jabber.org </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? </FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't get all the messages through to me. That would go straight into the trash can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not. I'm pretty sure that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages, or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now. This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over. It's not the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging, but the lack of reliability. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was received. Or if not, at least bounce it back. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Travis </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>---- Original Message ---- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Colin Madere <colin@vedalabs.com> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: "'jdev@jabber.org'" <jdev@jabber.org> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? </FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure everyone would like it). That does add overhead and client/server complexity. I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an interesting thing to do.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>(JMS = Java Message Service) </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing / guarenteed messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> -----Original Message----- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From: temas [<A HREF="mailto:temas@box5.net">mailto:temas@box5.net</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To: jdev@jabber.org </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> What's the whole setup? </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> --temas </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, travis@thinkvirtual.com wrote: </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> guaranteed to receive a message. Now most of my list is icq </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> buddies, but I miss a lot of messages. I tell people to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> email me if they want to make sure I get it. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> using jim mostly)? Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users? </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Could someone give me some insight into this? Thanks. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Travis Reeder </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Chief Software Architect </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ThinkVirtual </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>
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