[jdev] conversing with multiple users, but not MUC

Thu Jun 19 09:07:31 CDT 2008

I think we are all chasing things around in circles here.

o This is all supported by XEP-0033<http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0033.html>
o No servers support it
o No clients support it

Jehan to clarify your code (according to XEP-0033):

------------------------------
  <message
  to='multicast at example.org'
  from='sniper5 at example.org/hotAirBaloon'
  type='chat'
  xml:lang='en'>

   <addresses xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/address'>
       <address type='cc' jid='romeo at example.net/orchard' desc='Romeo'/>
       <address type='cc' jid='juliet at example.net/balcony' desc='Juliet'/>
   </addresses>

  <body>I know you two are misbehaving.</body>
  <thread>e0ffe42b28561960c6b12b944a092794b9683a38</thread>
  </message>
------------------------------

PSA and JH made a really good job of that spec for one reason in particular: multicast.example.org is a component; no need to alter any client/server code and you could make this yourself today with any XMPP component library.

Do we need to define another standard? No. Do we, the developers, have to sit down and look at our code tonight? Yes.

Toby, today there is no support on the clients/servers (and possible components). It is something the XMPP community needs to look at, and I definitely will, but I don't know when you can expect wide-spread results. Your best bet would be to:

1. Wait for a server/component team to implement this feature and upgrade
2. Wait for a client team to implement this feature and recommend it to your clients

The cocinnella chaps seem pretty good at making fast changes: maybe something for them to look at? They already have the whiteboard which has a private conference-loving implemenation - maybe someone could have a look at that code (sorry, not much use at C++ myself)?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdev-bounces at jabber.org [mailto:jdev-bounces at jabber.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff McAdams
> Sent: 19 June 2008 02:32 PM
> To: Jabber/XMPP software development list
> Subject: Re: [jdev] conversing with multiple users, but not MUC
>
> JabberForum wrote:
> > I think the problem of a muc derived use is about all the stuffs that
> > many people don't care of, or don't understand. When you go to a muc,
> > you must choose a muc server explicitely (even though it is the
> server
> > where you are already hosted) and you are proposed to chose a
> nickname
> > for instance, or whether you want to show your jid, or else being
> > anonymous, etc.
>
> Except that pretty much all of that is a matter of client
> implementation.
>
> The spec for MUC specifically envisioned potentially using it as a
> seamless transition from a one-on-one discussion to a multi-way
> discussion.
>
> The scenario is that a one-on-one discussion is taking place and the
> users decide that they want to add a third person.  So one of the
> people invites a third person into the chat.
>
> The client, and this can be completely behind the scenes, needs to go
> create a MUC, potentially send history to it, then send invites to the
> other two users with a <continue/> element.
>
> This is all described in section 7.6 of
> http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html
>
> This protocol capability gives clients all the tools they need to
> seamlessly convert a one-on-one to a quick ad-hoc sort of MUC chat with
> multiple people.  The user need not be even aware that MUC is being
> used to do it.
> --
> Jeff McAdams
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>                                        -- Benjamin Franklin