[jdev] RE: jdev Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20

Jean-Louis Seguineau jean-louis.seguineau at laposte.net
Thu Jan 18 12:25:08 CST 2007 

Beyond this, AS3 has introduced support for standard sockets, as Matt
reminds in his post. Beside XIFF which is being ported to AS3, there is an
XMPP library available on the Adobe lab site
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/flashplatform/flashplatform.zip or
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Source:get which leverages these
sockets.

Using either library already allows writing "standard" (i.e. non null
terminated XML string) clients 

Jean-Louis

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:06 PM
To: jdev at jabber.org
Subject: jdev Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20

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Today's Topics:

   1. Help ! I learned to build xmpp Server.I used the spark as
      client. (Zuo Shuai)
   2. Server (Phillip M. Vector)
   3. Re: Server (Matthias Wimmer)
   4. Re: Server (Sander Devrieze)
   5. Re: Flash vs Jabber (Sander Devrieze)
   6. Re: Flash vs Jabber (Sander Devrieze)
   7. Re: Flash vs Jabber (Artur Hefczyc)
   8. Re: Flash vs Jabber (Peter Saint-Andre)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:44:54 +0800
From: "Zuo Shuai" <zs08 at ustc.edu>
Subject: [jdev] Help ! I learned to build xmpp Server.I used the spark
	as	client.
To: <jdev at jabber.org>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:47:35 -0800
From: "Phillip M. Vector" <phillipmvector at comcast.net>
Subject: [jdev] Server
To: <jdev at jabber.org>
Message-ID: <20070116134913.3E99021B063 at atlas.jabber.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I've been talking with people about Jabber and have a question... 

Is a server something you can compile with just webpages or does it require
some backend instaliation?

If so, can someone point me to a good company who hosts a jabber server? I'm
sure there must be one out there. :)



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:54:53 +0100
From: Matthias Wimmer <m at tthias.eu>
Subject: Re: [jdev] Server
To: Jabber software development list <jdev at jabber.org>
Message-ID: <45ACD92D.6030709 at tthias.eu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Hi Phillip!

Jabber requires a permanently running server backend.

Matthias

Phillip M. Vector schrieb:
> Is a server something you can compile with just webpages or does it
require
> some backend instaliation?


-- 
Matthias Wimmer      Fon +49-700 77 00 77 70
ZC<richer Str. 243    Fax +49-89 95 89 91 56
81476 MC<nchen        http://ma.tthias.eu/



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:07:39 +0100
From: Sander Devrieze <s.devrieze at pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [jdev] Server
To: Jabber software development list <jdev at jabber.org>
Message-ID: <45ACEA3B.10904 at pandora.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Phillip M. Vector schreef:
> If so, can someone point me to a good company who hosts a jabber server?
I'm
> sure there must be one out there. :)

I know there are such services, and I also heard that it is possible to 
use IRC hosting services to run a Jabber server, but there are still too 
few of them :-(

-- 
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:52:06 +0100
From: Sander Devrieze <s.devrieze at pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [jdev] Flash vs Jabber
To: Jabber software development list <jdev at jabber.org>
Message-ID: <45ACF4A6.4080409 at pandora.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Matt Tucker schreef:
> The XIFF library is being updated to use Flash sockets. You can read a
> recent blog entry about this at:
> 
> http://www.igniterealtime.org/blog/2007/01/05/update-l-xiff-3-beta/

Yes, nice to hear.

> <psuedo-rant>Frankly, I'm not sure what Sander is so up in arms about in
> his article.

Why do you target just me? I'm pretty sure there are others that 
(partially) share my vision.

> People need stuff to "just work" and Flash is incredibly
> wide-spread. Having a non-XMPP protocol tweak for Flash clients is a
> very reasonable workaround (what we do in Wildfire). It's a couple of
> lines of code and doesn't affect other XMPP traffic. The alternative is
> that Flash developers would simply not use XMPP at all.

Besides Daniel Noll's idea, an alternative would be to develop a bridge 
component that converts the unstandard Flash XML to standard XMPP. In 
this way it will work with all XMPP servers.

Instead, Jive Software decided to take the easy approach by adding 
support for the unstandard XML to Wildfire. This is unfair to other/new 
XMPP servers. Moreover, this quick and dirty making stuff "just work" 
can lead to protocol filthiness...such a situation would be even bad for 
Jive Software themselves in the long run. More details on 
http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/flash-issues

Btw, as an example to show the entry barrier, the coder of the still 
very small server project Tigase told me that he has no time to 
implement protocol violations like the Flash work around; he said he has 
already enough work with just implementing the XMPP specs.

> Aren't there
> better issues to get passionate about? Frankly, I don't mind at all that
> Wildfire is on the "black list". :)</psuedo-rant>

Well, your pseudo-rant makes me think this is not 100% true. Anyway, you 
know how to solve the black listing issue ;-)

-- 
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:54:05 +0100
From: Sander Devrieze <s.devrieze at pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [jdev] Flash vs Jabber
To: Jabber software development list <jdev at jabber.org>
Message-ID: <45ACF51D.7070706 at pandora.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

** schreef:
> i am also developing a xmpp as3 lib.
> a out of date api doc is here:
> http://disktree.net/flabber/doc/
> 
> i will release the source code, as soon as i find time to cleanup 
> everything a bit (which seems to be anytime in 2099.unk )

Someone with a question about your lib:
http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/node/1297

-- 
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:16:36 +0000
From: Artur Hefczyc <ajdev at tigase.org>
Subject: Re: [jdev] Flash vs Jabber
To: jdev at jabber.org
Message-ID: <200701161616.36467.ajdev at tigase.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"

> Btw, as an example to show the entry barrier, the coder of the still
> very small server project Tigase told me that he has no time to
> implement protocol violations like the Flash work around; he said he has
> already enough work with just implementing the XMPP specs.

Hehe, as I was mentioned here let me say something too :-)

Working alone on a project I was tempted to take shortcuts
and implement some things in non-standard way to have results earlier.
There is a reason however to not do this.

No offense to Jive Software who has to provide just working server for
their customers. I understand that.

But breaking standards is something Microsoft is an expert at for years.
And now we end-up with WEB where some sites are only accessible
with IE and others are accessible with other browsers.
Web developers have hard time to create sites accessible from all
browsers.

So please don't do that again for Jabber/XMPP.

Artur
-- 
Artur Hefczyc
http://www.tigase.org/
http://wttools.sf.net/


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:04:23 -0700
From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter at jabber.org>
Subject: Re: [jdev] Flash vs Jabber
To: ajdev at tigase.org,	Jabber software development list
	<jdev at jabber.org>
Message-ID: <45AD0597.505 at jabber.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Artur Hefczyc wrote:
>> Btw, as an example to show the entry barrier, the coder of the still
>> very small server project Tigase told me that he has no time to
>> implement protocol violations like the Flash work around; he said he has
>> already enough work with just implementing the XMPP specs.
> 
> Hehe, as I was mentioned here let me say something too :-)
> 
> Working alone on a project I was tempted to take shortcuts
> and implement some things in non-standard way to have results earlier.
> There is a reason however to not do this.
> 
> No offense to Jive Software who has to provide just working server for
> their customers. I understand that.
> 
> But breaking standards is something Microsoft is an expert at for years.
> And now we end-up with WEB where some sites are only accessible
> with IE and others are accessible with other browsers.
> Web developers have hard time to create sites accessible from all
> browsers.
> 
> So please don't do that again for Jabber/XMPP.

Well now that Adobe/Macromedia is supposedly acquiring Antepo, maybe 
they will build in more native XMPP support, so that the Flash hack can 
wither away... :-)

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
XMPP Standards Foundation
http://www.xmpp.org/xsf/people/stpeter.shtml

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