[jdev] Jabberd2, Flash Client and terminator character...

Mon Apr 12 10:30:54 CDT 2004

I can definitely appreciate your arguments.  However, three things 
conspire against us all:

1)  The entire XMPP stream is a complete XML document, the specs of 
which do not permit the NULL character anywhere within the document itself.
2)  Flash does not currently seem to accept this, since it wants a 
complete XML "document" with each reciept.*
3)  Jabberd2 aims to be an open reference implementation of the 
XMPP-Core and XMPP-IM RFCs.

Both Flash and XMPP (often in the form of the protocols managed and 
published by the Jabber Software Foundation) are clearly gaining 
traction, especially in enterprise environments.

 From what I've seen so far, here are the possible paths I see we can 
follow to resolve this:
1)  Lobby Macromedia to provide better support for XMPP
2)  Lobby the jabberd2 project to provide better support for Flash
3)  Develop alternatives to direct XMPP streams

Option #1 is highly unlikely to result in anything in the short term.  
Option #2 would have a better shot, but since adding the NULL terminator 
violates the XMPP specs (by way of the XML specs), this also looks 
highly unlikely.  Option #3 is probably the most-realistic compromise at 
this time, since it does not violate any of the existing specs.

For Option #3, I believe there is already something in the works, in the 
form of JEP-0124: HTTP Binding.  It's not ideal, but given the fact that 
it can much more easily accomodate the demands from both XMPP and 
Flash.  The problem, of course, is that JEP-0124 is still rather 
immature, and lacks any truly deployable implementations.  Then again, 
if the Flash-XMPP/Jabber community does not feel this is adequate, they 
are welcome to present better alternatives.

In the short term, it is probably best to stick with some version of 
jabberd-1.4, since it already has the compatibility in place.  Longer 
term, it is very likely that HTTP-binding will be the "best" solution, 
unless options 1 and/or 2 result in anything productive.

These, of course, are just my thoughts and opinions.

-  LW

*  This is based on what I've been reading, since I have very little 
experience developing anything in Flash.

Keith Willis wrote:

>I agree with Sean,
>
>We are using his XIFF library to connect to our Jabber Server that was
>written in .NET.  Currently there is a Chat application and IM.  I am now
>onto trying to develop a whiteboard.  All done in flash.
>
>Something that you need to remember is that Flash movies are cross platform,
>cross browser compatable.  Even more so than Java.  And it is even more
>widely accepted.  Oh, and Flash is ADA compliant.
>
>Keith 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jdev-bounces at jabber.org [mailto:jdev-bounces at jabber.org] On Behalf Of
>Sean Voisen
>Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:32 AM
>To: Jabber software development list
>Subject: Re: [jdev] Jabberd2, Flash Client and terminator character...
>
>On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Richard Dobson wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Also IMO it would be a bad idea to use Flash as an enterprise 
>>development platform, its not really suited to that purpose IMO and 
>>you will be limiting yourself using it, IMO for proper enterprise web 
>>applications you would be far better using Java.
>>    
>>
>
>Honestly, unless you are deeply familiar with Flash's capabilities and its
>community, I wouldn't comment on the fact that Flash isn't suited for
>enterprise development!
>
>Take a look at Macromedia Flex. Take a look at Convoq ASAP (built entirely
>with Flash) and tell me it wouldn't be great with Jabber support alongside
>the other IM protocols.
>
>Flash is entirely well-suited for the rich-client portion of enterprise
>development. It is not meant to supplant Java, but rather live along-side it
>as the client of choice. Where I work we are building a multi-million dollar
>enterprise application for the insurance industry that is Java on the
>backend with a full Flash UI in a 3-tier system that interacts with the Java
>business logic using J2EE remoting.
>
>So, to say that Flash is not suited to enterprise development is clearly
>wrong.
>
>As for Jabber/XMPP, I know for a fact that there is growing support in the
>Flash community to use Flash with XMPP. A good deal of this support was
>initiated either by me, with the XIFF project, or by others being inspired
>by the release of Gush. So, if Flash socket support never makes it into
>Jabberd2, I'd say it's a loss for both sides, and XMPP needs all the help it
>can get, IMO. With the eminent release of the AOL Presence SDK for
>Macromedia Central, it's only a matter of time before Flash developers jump
>on the presence/IM bandwagon, and I'd hate to see it limited to AIM.
>
>- Sean
>
>Sean Voisen
>Weblog: http://voisen.org
>Flash/XMPP: http://xifflabs.com
>XIFF 2.0: http://www.jabberstudio.org/projects/xiff
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