[JDEV] Re: theoretic-smtp, Ransom License, Jabber and GPL incompatibility

Mon Jun 24 18:36:42 CDT 2002

Hi, all. Sorry, I don't often pay attention to the list on a daily 
basis, so this thread slipped me by until James CC'ed it to me. I'd also 
like to apologize for not replying to any previous emails about the 
issue. I get way too many emails a day, and am experimenting with ways 
to solve that problem. As it is, some messages to slip past me or 
accidentilly find their way into the trash along with the 70+ spams I 
get a day.

First of all, Ransom [http://www.theoretic.com/?Ransom] is a model I'd 
like to develop into a mature option for other software developers. It 
certainly isn't perfect, but I see great potential in it. I'm using 
JabberSMTP (the Perl SMTP Transport on my website) 
[http://www.theoretic.com/?JabberSMTP] as an experiment to try and flesh 
it out. Unfortunately I have not had the time to really dedicate myself 
to it like I've wanted, and alot of inconsistencies do exist as a result 
of that.

I understand JabberSMTP still needs alot of work, and I frankly don't 
care about the $100 I'm trying to get from it. I just care about 
developing the Ransom model. If I don't get the $100, nothing will 
change. I will never try and stop people's use of the code, and there is 
not a 30 day period like shareware. Think of Ransom as "freeware (as in 
cost) that *will* become free/open software (as in liberty), just not 
right now".

JabberSMTP is not GPL *yet*, although it will someday (at the lastest, 
end of December 2002, although possibly earlier as part of the Ransom 
license). This has no bearing on Jabber or the other implimentations of 
it. Jabber is an open protocol, not any set of code. It is like email 
and HTTP in that respect. Anyone can make code using the Jabber protocol 
under any license, and they can all communicate to each other over the 
Jabber open protocol. Because JabberSMTP is not GPL or free software yet 
does not in any way "taint" the rest of Jabber.

I will be ahppy to answer any questions, and use them to improve 
JabberSMTP and Ransom, even if it means accepting I was wrong in the 
past in some way. I am already beginning to fix the problems you list 
below, getting off my ass finally to dedicate time and attention to 
them. I'll keep you updated if you want.

Perhaps here is a problem with JabberSMTP being on JabberStudio. I have 
not thought so until now, but if it is decided Jabberstudio is only for 
free software (as in liberty) and open source projects, I will certainly 
remove it from there, since it is not yet those things (but will be soon).

James Michael DuPont wrote:

>--- David Waite <mass at akuma.org> wrote:
>  
>
>>James Michael DuPont wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Also there is some software with a crazy license on it,
>>>a "ransom" license? I thought jabber is free software? I dont want
>>>      
>>>
>>any
>>    
>>
>>>ransom software on my machine, why is in CVS if it cannot be used?
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Huh? Elaborate please.
>>    
>>
>I am talking about Adam Theos Ransom License on the theoretic-smtp
>jabber gateway.
>
>I find it amusing and annoying on the positive side,  Even creative.
>
>On the negative side I feel violated having seen this source code, now
>how can I implement the same under a GPL without getting into a nasty
>conflict? Why should I get source code out of CVS that I have to
>delete?
>I just did a "co ." to get all the branches.
>
>QUOTE "3 Once the evaluation period ends, you agree to either
>purchase a registered copy of the software at usd$5.00, or immediately
>stop any further use, copying and modification of the software and any
>modifications and to destroy all such copies or modifications."
>
>I mean come on! What type of BS is that? Sure Adam is only 21 years
>old,   but it is a bit silly.
>
>I have written my questions to theo at theoretic.com before, and have
>gotten no statement from him. The point is, that it is ok, I would say
>to put it on his own web server, but what is it doing on the jabber
>server? 
>Do you have to delete the source code from your server after 30 day?
>
>There is not anything really special about this source code, and
>http://www.jabberstudio.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/theoretic-smtp/jabber.pl?rev=1.6&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
>is missing any license statement.
>
>Also , how can I contribute to jabber if we are not all playing on the
>same level playing ground? 
>
>Also, adam has been pushing to get jabber into DotGNU, 
>project and I have not wanted to make a big deal about it, but
>jabber is now an officially endorsed project.
>
>But it is strange that I cannot even use his contribution as part of a
>GNU software,
>the license is totally unacceptable for a free software project and
>represents an inpurity that has to be removed.
>
>Dont take me as being negative,
>I think that he should be able to license his ideas and software as
>he likes, but not mixing it up with free software. I dont want anything
>to do wiht this ransom license for my software that is under GPL.
>
>If you feel that this is good, then collect the money,
>pay him off, and remove the license. Otherwise you will just scare
>people off.
>
>Best Regards,
>James Michael DuPont
>
>TWO SNIPPETS FOLLOW :
>[1] theoretic-smtp/README
>[2] theoretic-smtp/LICENSE
>
>-------------------------SNIP-------------------------
>[1]http://www.jabberstudio.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/theoretic-smtp/README?rev=1.4&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
>-------------------------SNIP-------------------------
>### LICENSE
>You may download, use, and redistribute the source code at no
>cost. However, you may not modify and redistribute, or incorporate
>this source code into other projects. That is because the source code
>is not yet Open Source or Free Software. It is published under a
>"Ransom License", which means the rights to the source code remain
>restricted until a set amount of money is collected or a set date
>passes, at which point the code is freed. You can read the particular
>Ransom License used, "Theoretic's Simple Ransom License v0.9", in the
>LICENSE file found packaged with the SMTP-T program or from its
>website [http://www.theoretic.com/?JabberSMTP]. And you can help Open
>Source JabberSMTP by contributing to its Ransom amount
>[http://www.theoretic.com/?JabberSMTP/Ransom]. To find out more
>information about the Ransom Model, visit the Ransom website
>[http://www.theoretic.com/?Ransom].
>-------------------------SNIP-------------------------
>
>
>-------------------------SNIP-------------------------
>[2]http://www.jabberstudio.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/theoretic-smtp/LICENSE?rev=1.2&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
>-------------------------SNIP-------------------------
>######### THEORETIC'S SIMPLE RANSOM LICENSE ##########
>Version 1.1
>
>Copyright 2001 Adam Theo
>
>This Simple Ransom License covers all copyrighted material that say
>they are covered under the terms and conditions of the "Simple Ransom
>License".
>
>Use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are
>permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
>	1 You may use, copy, or modify the software at no cost for an
>evaluation period of up to 31 days, beginning when you first install
>the software on one or more computers, in order to determine whether
>the product meets your needs before purchasing it.
>	2 You may use, copy or modify the source code or binary form
>for your internal use only. No redistribution is allowed. This applies
>for both evaluation and registered copies.
>	3 Once the evaluation period ends, you agree to either
>purchase a registered copy of the software at usd$5.00, or immediately
>stop any further use, copying and modification of the software and any
>modifications and to destroy all such copies or modifications.
>	You should make payments through PayPal
>(http://www.paypal.com), sending to 'theo at theoretic.com', although
>I may accept other payment methods if you talk to me about it.
>	4 By registering the copy to you, the copyright holder is
>obligated to count your payment towards the Ransom Amount of
>usd$100.00. When the full Ransom Amount has been collected, the source
>code will be automatically re-licensed under the JOSL, included
>below.
>	Details and other information on this Ransom model can be
>found at http://www.theoretic.com/ransom, or from the
>ransom at theoretic.com mailing list.
>
>
>THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS
>"AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT
>LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR
>A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR
>CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
>EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
>PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR
>PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF
>LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING
>NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS
>SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.
>-------------------------SNIP-------------------------
>
>=====
>James Michael DuPont
>http://introspector.sourceforge.net/
>
>__________________________________________________
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>  
>