[JDEV] The Important Things

Fri Jan 11 14:21:18 CST 2002

I can see where you are coming from, but let me state a few things that 
could probably convey some alternative views.

There have been a lot of comparisons made between Jabber and Apache, and 
though I recognize they are both different, and at different stages of their 
lives ;-), I think it does help a lot to continue in the same vein, 
especially since we know the Apache model works and we also base a lot of 
our formalities (like the Software Foundation), on theirs.

Apache, is primarily an open source project. You can download a copy of the 
latest bits from apache.org and get your web server up and running in a 
matter of minutes (ok, maybe hours, if you are new ;-)). But, you get 
security, reliability, scalability, the whole enchilada. Now, where does a 
commercial entity, like Covalent, come in the picture ? Customization, ease 
of setting up, support, maintanence, or in a general sense, value-added 
services (like a web based admin module, an SNMP module, an Intrusion 
Detection/Virus Scanning module) etc. and they are darn well going to charge 
you for that extra stuff, and yes, they are more than justified in doing so. 
However, basic capabilities like scalability, security (you have mod_ssl, 
but you will have to figure it out yourself), reliability (to a certain 
extent) are not the differentiating factor between the open source and 
customized versions of Apache. In summary, you have the option:

You can deploy the Open Source version in your enterprise, for free, but be 
prepared to spend a whole deal of money to customize it, maintain and 
support it etc.

or

You can go to some company like Covalent, and ask them to do it for you, for 
a price.

Jabber, I believe, is still primarily an open source project. You can 
download the latest bits and be up and running very fast. But, the 
comparison stops there. If you need scalability, security, reliability etc, 
then you HAVE to get the commercial version. You may argue we have jpolld, 
dpsm, which makes it more scalable, but as an example scenario, can you run 
an open source Jabber server that supports BOTH SSL and is scalable? No, not 
without the CCM, but you can do that with Apache. I am aware that Jabber 
Inc, has made the SCM open source and I believe there are some efforts going 
on (correct me if I am wrong) to get the CCM open sourced too (any time 
frame, guys?). So, I definitely laud the efforts there, but when you start 
offering scalability, security, reliability etc as the differentiating 
factor, then it throws some doubts, even to the most open minded people.

Jabber Inc still has a lot of avenues to make a successful business case. 
There are a lot of customized modules, like an enterprise scale ldap module 
for user registration/authentication, a virus scanning module (yes, IMs can 
carry viruses too ;-)), a web admin module (there have been previous threads 
on such an idea and the demand for it), superior installation, maintanence 
and support packages etc. that Jabber Inc can offer as 'value-added' 
services.

Let the differentiating factor not be basic capabilities like scalability, 
security, reliability.

My 2 paise,
Ragavan

>From: James Barry <JMBarry at jabber.com>
>Reply-To: jdev at jabber.org
>To: "'jdev at jabber.org'" <jdev at jabber.org>
>Subject: RE: [JDEV] The Important Things
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:58:46 -0700
>
>So far as the scalability that this thread has discussed, I want to make a
>quick statement on that from the Jabber Inc. perspective.
>
>We have made our own version of Jabber highly scalable.  We believe we can
>scale to 250,000 + simultaneous clients (we have yet to reach our limit, 
>but
>testing validates at least 250,000 users with our current testing harness)
>If you want to see some beginning extremely large rollouts, look at Disney
>http://im.go.com or iwon
>http://www.iwon.com/home/messenger/messenger_overview/0,17445,,00.html?PG=ho
>me&SEC=comm or wait for Bell South, Wannado or Orange to announce their
>rollouts with extremely large user bases.  Jabber can scale, but Jabber 
>Inc.
>needs to have a product to sell so that we can support the Websites and 
>many
>of the main contributors for the Open Source effort who now work for Jabber
>Inc.
>
>Jabber Inc. will continue to have those individuals offer their time to 
>help
>the Open Source efforts, and help the Open Source Jabber get better with
>time.  We will be continue to thread the line between helping the Open
>Source codebase and offering our own products based on the Open Source
>implementation.  For those who have been around watching the Open Source
>business model evolve, I believe that this is the best way for both
>commercial and Open Source implementations to exist.
>
>So Jabber can scale and is available to scale today.
>
>James Barry
>Chief Technical Officer
>jmbarry at jabber.com
>303.308.3275
>JID:jmbarry at jabber.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Bauer [mailto:bauer at michaelbauer.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 5:48 PM
> > To: jdev at jabber.org
> > Subject: [JDEV] The Important Things
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind of picking up on my own thread, what exactly are the important
> > things?
> >
> > B)
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------
> > Michael Bauer      http://www.michaelbauer.com
> > bauer at michaelbauer.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > jdev mailing list
> > jdev at jabber.org
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> >
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