[JDEV] The "OpenAIM" Project

[mitchell balsam]

> Either they just used a 
> normal client to do this or script with a jabber module. Once 
> aim.jabber.org logged into AOL w/ that dummy account, they 
> would examine the source IP for that client connection (I'm 
> sure they regularly block abusive users/IPs and this action 
> is quite easy with their administrative tools).
How could AOL tell the difference beween a jabber server with an AIM
module behind a firewall and 50 aim users working behind a firewall
using aim's http proxy module?  As far as I know they cant. Jeremie, I
conceed you have a lot of experince with this but what am I missing
here?   Now if you said that we were not repsonding to a command in the
protocol I would agree that AOL could detect that. 

For my work, jabber is very very important if I can communicate with
users on all the IM networks.  From a busness point of view, I don't
have the luxuary of not talking to people on AOL.. It my believ that
many jabber busness user share this point of view. (I could be wrong so
comments are appreciated)

Jeremie, jabber is your product and I truly respect you for bring it
this far. But if you want me as your customer via jabber.com, this is a
very imporant issue.  I cant simply ignore communicating with 100
Million AOL users. 




> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdev-admin at jabber.org [mailto:jdev-admin at jabber.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jeremie
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:44 PM
> To: jdev at jabber.org
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] The "OpenAIM" Project
> 
> 
> There is a very simple reason why any approach like this is 
> doomed to failure.  
> 
> As far as I can tell, the technique AOL is/was using to track 
> the IPs being used by aim.jabber.org was that they had a 
> dummy AIM account and registered the transport to use it via 
> jabber like any normal user does. 

> Either they just used a 
> normal client to do this or script with a jabber module. Once 
> aim.jabber.org logged into AOL w/ that dummy account, they 
> would examine the source IP for that client connection (I'm 
> sure they regularly block abusive users/IPs and this action 
> is quite easy with their administrative tools).
> 
> The entire thing could be automated on their side, and it 
> would only take a very short amount of time to obliterate any 
> network of aim transports or socket redirectors.
> 
> I fully agree, this battle isn't one for the technology, our 
> technical resources are better spent improving Jabber, and if 
> anyone has political resources those are probably best spent 
> showing the world why a commons for communication platforms 
> is so important over closed commercial/corporate networks.
> 
> Jer
> 
> On 8 Jan 2002, Adam Theo wrote:
> 
> > Hmm... A thought just occured to me when reading about these Socket 
> > Redirects. I am not familiar with them, so they may already 
> have this 
> > ability.
> > 
> > The key would for any "permanent solution" to be completely 
> transport 
> > side. This is opposed to the client-side which would 
> require users to 
> > install new software (won't happen), or even server-side 
> which would 
> > require server admins to re-do their entire server installation. 
> > Here's a solution:
> > 
> > Modify Temas's AIM-T to find other AIM-T's on the Jabber 
> network in a 
> > DNS-like propogation system (how DNS entries spread accross the 
> > internet). When someone connects to an AIM-T, any AIM-T, the 
> > collective AIM-T's "shuffle" the users connections around, 
> randomizing 
> > IPs and distributing load. Once a hundred or so IPs are on this 
> > "OpenAIM" network, it would be near impossible for AOL to 
> track down 
> > even a small percentage of the IPs... especially if the IPs are 
> > somehow transparent to the client (to stop an AOL employee 
> downloading 
> > and tracking AIM connections through Jabber). The only IP 
> the client 
> > would see is the AIM-T at their home server, but the IP 
> that actually 
> > is making the connection could be any one of dozens if not 
> hundreds. 
> > Alot of potential here, folks... And this OpenAIM network 
> would bring 
> > on alot of those "multi-protocol" clients that are not yet 100% 
> > Jabber... I would see Everybuddy and GAIM becoming full 
> Jabber clients 
> > if we could pull this off...
> > 
> > And in actuality, I think alot of the technology to do this 
> is already 
> > out there, it just needs to be pulled together.
> > 
> > Yes, I'm 100% behind this idea. I am a crappy programmer, 
> but I would 
> > be willing to dedicate some pocket money to help a 
> programmer or two 
> > get this up.... Whadda say? I know there are some problems, but 
> > instead of shooting this idea down, how about we put our 
> thinking caps 
> > on and figure out viable solutions? Wow, I think this could work...
> > 
> > 
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> > jdev at jabber.org
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> > 
> 
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