[JDEV] Guaranteed message delivery (was: Unreliable?)

Thu May 3 13:35:03 CDT 2001

Maybe I was not verbose enough in my explanation.

Guaranteed messages is not currently a feature of the Jabber server OR any
Jabber clients I know of.  It would be a nice _optional_ feature of the
Jabber server, but should be optional since it would cause increased traffic
that some solutions may not want.

Here is a more verbose explanation of what I was proposing using the
existing Jabber server version(s) and modifying an existing client or
rolling your own:

Note:  Not showing server in this since it includes not logic for guarenteed

1) Client A sends message -> Client B 
2) Client B recv message and sends a "receipt message" -> Client A
3) Client A removes message from "pending receipt" list

Client A will alert user if a message is on the "pending receipt" list for
more than X seconds.

The "receipt message" could be a standard message with no normal body text
but includes an <x> section which includes the message that was received and
any other pertinent information.  The specialized client would know to
process this <x> section to update it's "pending receipt" list.

You still maintain the ability to send message to clients that don't support
your specialized <x> section, but you will need some way to know (which I
believe there is a way to ask for someone's client type) to not wait for
return receipts from those clients.

Colin Madere
Vedalabs, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: travis at thinkvirtual.com [mailto:travis at thinkvirtual.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:59 AM
To: jdev at jabber.org
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

But what if the client never gets the message?  That's the whole problem
here.  The server needs to know whether the client got the message or not,
not the other way around. 

Travis 

---- Original Message ---- 
From: Colin Madere <colin at vedalabs.com> 
Sent: 2001-05-03 09:01:34.0 
To: "'jdev at jabber.org'" <jdev at jabber.org> 
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 

Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could sent
"message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with an
<x> namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
server mod necessary...
-----Original Message----- 
From: travis at thinkvirtual.com [mailto:travis at thinkvirtual.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM 
To: jdev at jabber.org 
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 

I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging, but
the lack of reliability.   
I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   
Travis 
---- Original Message ---- 
From: Colin Madere <colin at vedalabs.com> 
Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
To: "'jdev at jabber.org'" <jdev at jabber.org> 
Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 

I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
interesting thing to do.
(JMS = Java Message Service) 
Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing / guarenteed
messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: temas [mailto:temas at box5.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> To: jdev at jabber.org 
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> What's the whole setup? 
> 
> As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> 
> --temas 
> 
> On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, travis at thinkvirtual.com wrote: 
> > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > 
> > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > 
> > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > 
> > Travis Reeder 
> > Chief Software Architect 
> > ThinkVirtual 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > jdev at jabber.org 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> jdev mailing list 
> jdev at jabber.org 
> http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> 
_______________________________________________ jdev mailing list
jdev at jabber.org http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
_______________________________________________ jdev mailing list
jdev at jabber.org http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://www.jabber.org/jdev/attachments/20010503/00bccc4b/attachment-0002.htm>