[JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language

Thu Jun 7 18:40:01 CDT 2001

I completely understand (and agree with) the need to finding the
problem-space before coming up with the solution-range.

I think we're showing that we have a problem space.  This is a reply from
one, although others have given more concrete examples.  My own "gut
feeling" is to allow for client-side customizations that don't require a
specific Jabber client to work.

I think we're also seeing that the solution to the problem starts to
generate more problems (at least right now).  For instance, how do these
scripts get executed or hooked-in?  If it's through embedding, how do we
protected against "virus-empowering", if it's even a real problem?

But since the behavior of BOTH the client and server are well-defined, I
believe we should have some facility to uniformly define an "interface
model" (at least for one if not both).  The interface model (be it DOM-like
or IPC-like) can lead to better-designed clients, that fullfil the goal of
Jabber being a solid, flexible, and extensible framework for real-time
messaging.

By defining a standard interface model, this could start with better design
on clients, by saying "hey, this client supports the same interface model as
other clients, so you don't have to learn a whole new API just to customize
me".  From here, we could easily move to an embedded scripting model that
allows for "applications" that simply rely on the ("enhanced"?) Jabber
client as its platform.

Anyways, besides the scripting thing being a "cool geek thing", there are
legitimate uses and needs for it: if there weren't why allow scripting of
e-mail or IRC clients?

OK, I'll get off my soap-box now.  Enough evangelizing for today, I
think...(-:

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Emswiler, Mike [mailto:MEmswiler at protrader.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 15:55
To: 'jdev at jabber.org'
Subject: RE: [JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language

And of course, I've always loved the idea of just sending around script
embedded in XML and having clients execute it!  Really handy for
"roll-your-own" forms and workflow applications ... but horribly insecure...
JabberVirus anyone?

Thanks,
MikeE

-----Original Message-----
From: stpeter [mailto:stpeter at jabber.org]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 5:33 PM
To: 'jdev at jabber.org'
Subject: RE: [JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language

I agree that something XML-related would be best. But I feel we need to
determine what the problem-set is before we settle on solutions.

Peter

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Matthew Miller wrote:

> Here's my $0.02...
>
> Jabber's protocol is described in XML, right?  And there's currently
> something called the Document Object Model, right?  Which defines an
> interface for events?
>
> Although Jabber isn't a Document-centric environment, a DOM-like model
(with
> events) could be fairly easily defined, and isn't that hard to execute.
I'd
> like to provide an example to this, but the software I'm working on
belongs
> to my employer.
>
> Anyways, why don't we look into something DOM-like?  This is basically
point
> 2), just a little (OK, a lot) more object-centric that simply an
> "interface".
>
> Like I said, that's just my $0.02...
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen D. Williams [mailto:sdw at lig.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 14:01
> To: jdev at jabber.org
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language
>
>
> "Emswiler, Mike" wrote:
> >
> > I would suggest that Jabber take one of two approaches:
> >
> > 1. (the easiest) "adopt" an official language.  This should be an
> existing,
> > open-source, and preferably widely used language such as Python (my
vote)
> or
> > Perl (if we want to scare people away Jabber :)
> > 2. define a client scripting host interface.  This is a bit more
complex,
> > but far more flexible.  A binary specification for the host interface
> should
> > be developed, allowing anyone to write a scripting engine "plug-in"
> thereby
> > allowing any scripting language to be used.  A particular client (such
as
> > WinJab) could be used as a reference implementation for the client
> scripting
> > host interface.
>
> I was thinking of adding Python/JPython to a client I was building to
> provide scripting.  While I'm not a Python enthusiast, my friends have
> convinced me that I will be.  Since it has great support for Java, it
> makes a nice dual environment choice.
>
> The interface idea is definitely another useful possibility.
>
> >
> > Client-scripting can really be used by the client all over the place,
but
> I
> > think the one feature most everyone wants is the ability to add custom
> > message handlers for automated or gui processing to easily extend *any*
> > client and to allow people to focus on the business logic of their needs
> > (client extensions) without worrying about the client itself (Inboxes,
> > History, notifications, blah blah) or which client the user wishes
> (WinJab,
> > Gabber, etc.)
>
> Definitely, required at some point soon.
>
> sdw
>
> >
> > PGMillard had some good ideas on this front ... Peter ... was there ever
a
> > JIG or something formed or proposed for this yet?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > MikeE
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Todd Bradley [mailto:TBradley at jabber.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 2:26 PM
> > To: 'jdev at jabber.org'
> > Subject: RE: [JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language
> >
> > > Has there ever been any discussion of a client side scripting
> > > language for
> > > Jabber?  I'm thinking of something along the lines of mIRC's scripting
> > > language for the IRC protocol.
> >
> > That was the source of my original interest in the
> > Tcl client (zABBER).  My goal was to have a client
> > that had a scripting language interpreter so you
> > could write scripts to do special handling of events.
> > But, alas, it's not that advanced.
> >
> > To answer your question, I don't think there's been
> > serious discussion in the past year about a single
> > "official" Jabber client scripting language.  It
> > would probably be impossible to get everyone to
> > agree what that language should be.
> >
> > Todd.
> > _______________________________________________
> > jdev mailing list
> > jdev at jabber.org
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> > _______________________________________________
> > jdev mailing list
> > jdev at jabber.org
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
>
> --
> sdw at lig.net  http://sdw.st
> Stephen D. Williams
> 43392 Wayside Cir,Ashburn,VA 20147-4622 703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax
> Dec2000
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jdev mailing list
> jdev at jabber.org
> http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
>

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