[JDEV] AOL Corporate Teamwork

Josh MItts josh at fired-up.com
Mon Aug 30 17:09:24 CDT 1999 

Well, just so u all know - there's another website with the OSCAR specs. I'm
looking for it right now....I accessed it about a week ago.

Thanks,

Josh

----------
>From: Jon Beckham <beckham at pawz.paulvi.net>
>To: "'jdev at jabber.org'" <jdev at jabber.org>
>Subject: RE: [JDEV] AOL Corporate Teamwork
>Date: Mon, Aug 30, 1999, 6:00 PM
>

> I apologize for responding to an outdated e-mail.  There would not be any
> logo put anywhere without AOL's permission.  That would be stupid.
> The point of the _link_ not logo would be for a little bartering between
> us and them.  They get the priveledge of linking within the server (only
> when the AIM transport is used) in exchange for us knowing the specs a lot
> earlier than we currently do.  Basically, I only brought this up in an
> attempt to provide a more fluid interface between AIM and jabber a lot
> sooner than is possible.  It would enable us to get rid of bugs and other
> problems quicker, because we would not have to wait for AOL to release
> anything, we could corelease with them their client and our transport.
> Just trying to make it easier on everyone concerned.
>
> I apologize for thinking stability, speed, and efficiency was more
> important than giving the image of not "selling out" to big business.
> However, there is no selling out, we are merely creating a partnership,
> not a reliance.
>
>  Jon Beckham
> class of 2000
>   webmaster
>
> On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Jon Beckham wrote:
>
>> Thank you!  You got the general idea and were able to put it into words!
>> This is exactly what I was thinking.  And it doesn't force any coding into
>> someone else's GUI.
>> Jim, you're a genius.  ;-)
>>
>>  Jon Beckham
>> class of 2000
>>   webmaster
>>
>> On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Jim Phillips wrote:
>>
>> > How about this idea.  If a user is utilizing the AIM transport, he/she's
>> > going to have to tell the Jabber GUI somewhere what his/her AIM
>> > screen-name/password is.  On whatever dialog the Jabber GUI uses to prompt
>> > for that username/password, prominently display the AIM logo and provide a
>> > link to AOL.  Then, if the AIM transport is in use, also insert an entry
>> > into the help pulldown of the GUI saying something like About AOL
Transport,
>> > which also displays the logo and a link.. That way the GUI doesn't have to
>> > ugly itself up with pointless logos and links but it's still in there in an
>> > appropriate location..
>> >
>> > Jim Phillips
>> > Former-Lurker
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Jon Beckham [mailto:beckham at pawz.paulvi.net]
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 4:02 PM
>> > To: jdev at jabber.org
>> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] AOL Corporate Teamwork
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your input, and please keep adding to it.
>> > I have definitely changed my mind on some counts, so here is the replanned
>> > plan:
>> > Only if the user is utilizing the AIM Transport will any link be placed on
>> > any GUI window, and only in the window containing the AOL user.  This way,
>> > if any other transport decides to use the same method of codevelopment,
>> > they can be as unobtrusive as the AIM codevelopment plan.
>> > And about the issue of mandatory coding in an open source product:
>> > is there an "official" client of jabber?  Or even a more common client?
>> > If so, that client, along with any other client in which the developers
>> > agree to do so, can have the link coding.
>> > Any more flames, please, keep them coming.
>> >
>> >  Jon Beckham
>> > class of 2000
>> >   webmaster
>> >
>> > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Anders Qvist wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Chris wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On 08/29/1999 at 07:07 AM Jeremy Weatherford wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Kemal 'disq' Hadimli wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> > On Sat Aug 28, Eliot Landrum wrote:
>> > > > >> > > Sorry Jon, I personally would rather wait for the updates than
to
>> > > > >> > > have to have an extra link in my client.
>> > > > >> me too. aol sucks.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Guys, think about what you're saying.  You're saying "_I_ don't want
>> > AOL
>> > > > >logos on my client.  _I_ don't mind waiting."  It's the developers who
>> > > > >make those decisions.  Think about whether you're going to be the same
>> > > > >guys who complain because it's taking too long to implement a new
>> > feature.
>> > > > >I'm not saying you will be, but just think about it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I think it's a good idea to cooperate with AOL.  From what I've seen
of
>> > > > >existing open-source protocol libraries, the understanding of AIM's
>> > > > >protocol is not perfect.  Keeping in step with their client would be
>> > neat,
>> > > > >to boot.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I can't say that I agree with the logo idea right now, although I'm
>> > sure a
>> > > > >fairly unobtrusive place for it can be found, and at that point, it
>> > should
>> > > > >go before the 'Jabber community'.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I am strongly inclined to agree with Eliot and Kemal. I don't want
>> > > > Jabber to be linked to corporate "interests". Why? Because what if I
>> > > > have a problem with AOL? I can choose not to ever use AIM or talk to
>> > > > people on AOL through that transport, but if Jabber is tied to AOL like
>> > > > this (at the transport/server level) then all the clients would have to
>> > > > have the banner.
>> > >
>> > > In fact, we cannot place any demands on client implementations at all,
>> > > because there is no limitation on who is allowed to implement
>> > > Jabber-talking sofware (nor can there be, without serious violation of
>> > > the spirit of Open Source).
>> > >
>> > > > Consider that Jabber would also then be paying for the ability to talk
>> > to AIM
>> > > > users. Granted its more like bartering than paying cash, but do we want
>> > to be
>> > > > paying for the ability to talk to other transports? What if some other
>> > IM
>> > > > "provider" decides that it would like to go that route?
>> > >
>> > > If someone is not interested in being interoperable, that is their
>> > > problem. If AOL is not willing to expend the tiny amount of
>> > > resources needed to fork over protocol specs and some token support
>> > > for getting access to the Jabber user base, I'm not interested.
>> > >
>> > > Remember: before getting a Jabber user base, they won't take an
>> > > interest in us, and after we get a user base, we'll be competition.
>> > > That means we'll have a bargaining position, which we can use to
>> > > squeeze consessions out of them.
>> > >
>> > > Which brings up another interesting question: Does AOL/ICQ users sign
>> > > some agreement when they create a new account? If they do,
>> > > client-creating transport are going to have some difficulty with
>> > > mimicing that behaviour, since there is really no provision in the Jabber
>> > > protocol for creating question/answer stuff. Not impossible, but
>> > > difficult and likely clumsy (and anybody can turn it off anyway). If
>> > > we ignore it and create accounts anyway, we're gonna get a pack of
>> > > lawyers yapping up our tree.
>> > >
>> > > Anders "Quest" Qvist
>> > > NetGuide Scandinavia
>> > >
>> > > And we who listen to the sky, or walk the dusty grade,
>> > > Or break the very atoms down, to see how they are made,
>> > > Or study cells, or living things, seek truth with open hand;
>> > > The profoundest act of worship is to try to understand.
>> > >
>> > > -- Catherine Faber, "The Word of God"
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > jdev mailing list
>> > > jdev at jabber.org
>> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
>> > >
>> >
>> >
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